Jack Ketchum: Thirteen (or so) Terrible Questions With a Grand Master of Horror
Although the intended purpose of Dark Bites is to provide bite sized entertainment I couldn't help but think this was the perfect time of year to offer you this conversation I had with the man who Stephen King hails to as the scariest guy in America, Jack Ketchum. This interview, one of my personal favourates if I may so so, gives a intimate glimpse inside of Ketchum's apartment and his head at that time.
Also if you would have enjoyed reading this lengthier interview as a series of smaller portions, please do let me know as it's your feedback that will ultimately drive what and how stuff gets posted here.
Thirteen (or so) Terrible Questions for Jack Ketchum
Also if you would have enjoyed reading this lengthier interview as a series of smaller portions, please do let me know as it's your feedback that will ultimately drive what and how stuff gets posted here.
Thirteen (or so) Terrible Questions for Jack Ketchum
Originally interviewed for Dark Recesses Press, 2008
If
THE LOST came like a blood stained bullet that tore through the minds
of all that witnessed it then surely JACK KETCHUM’S THE GIRL NEXT
DOOR pulled the plug on all that ever felt safe when it came to
watching a film based on the novels of Jack Ketchum, one of the
hardest hitting, controversial authors writing today. So what goes
on behind the eyes of someone who’s muse has conjured up the most
horrific and socially devastating worlds where human monsters pay no
mind to closed doors and locked windows because they’re already
living on the other side, or down the road or right next door? What
makes this acclaimed bad boy of dark fiction tick and, more important
of recent, what’s a guy like Ketchum doing jumping out at us from
behind the silver screen when for so long we’ve been quite alright
knowing he’s safely confined to his writing desk working on our
next medicinal dose of unsettling prose? These questions and many
more were brewing in my mind when, armed with a hot coffee and my own
burning curiosity, I cornered the man on the phone, himself armed
with his vises of choice, and carefully ventured into his world
unknowing of what I’d find.
JK - I’ve got my
drink, my smokes, what have you got?
Rick Hipson - First off,
congrats on getting a double bill of THE LOST and THE GIRL NEXT DOOR
on Canadian soil in Toronto. Sorry I had to miss the show and the
chance to buy ya a round, but then again, I’m not sure my mind
wants submerge its self in the world of TGND again just yet. What’s
it like for you to be traveling all over the world with TGND and
having to watch such a moving and mentally challenging film over and
over again? It doesn’t get any easier I’d imagine.
Jack Ketchum - I just don’t.
I come in at the beginning and leave, and then come back at the end.
Even I can only watch the movie so many times. After a while it
becomes like some sort of strange masturbation. You just have to go
away and hang out with friends for an hour and a half and check your
watch until it’s time to come back and say hi to the watchers in
the theatre.
RH - When I spoke
with some of the actors from THE LOST, they felt that - depending on
where you went across the globe - you’d get a slightly different
interpretation of the film. Apparently the folks in Italy viewed the
film from more of an emotional level and cared more for the
characterization than for the way the violence and the imagery was
carried out which was more to the liking in other parts of the world.
With both THE LOST and, now with THE GIRL NEXT DOOR, do you find the
crowd response to be much different as you tour from place to place.
JK - That’s
funny. It’s more similar than different. I think you’re right
about Italy. There were more people visibly upset in Italy than
there were in the ‘States. Italians are very emotional! [LAUGHS]
They’re very big happy and very big sad. It’s pretty close to a
certain kind of line that people either walk out angry at it or are
moved by it or impervious as to why the hell they got in there in the
first place. I’m not finding a lot of diversity (in emotional
reactions). I’m finding a pretty much across-the-board response.
People either love it or hate it. It’s a pretty polarizing film.
RH - Dallas, if THE
LOST put you on the map as an author who’s books make for great
films, than THE GIRL NEXT DOOR most certainly cemented that idea. Do
you look at your recent success with the film adaptations as a
defining point for the over-all success of your career, or does this
success mean something else that one wouldn’t guess so easily?
JK - I’m going
to have to digest that for a minute. My feeling is that the films
are almost peripheral. Yeah, I’m pulling in more cash this year
and last year than I did before and I’m getting more exposure than
I did before, but it’s always about the work and the books and the
prose to me. I find the books were pretty well esteemed and accepted
before any movie adaptations were made of them. For me, it’s still
about that. I can only take credit for the base material on (the
movie adaptations). I’m certainly willing to field questions and
promote the movies because I’ve liked them and because they’ve
been responsible, good adaptations. I’ve always thought, for me,
the book is on the shelf and that’s what I really want to point you
to and, for me, the real pleasure, apart from the fact that it’s
wonderful to have these people interested in my books, is to point
back at the books; Just point it back to the actual writing.
Movies are
the cherry on the ice cream.
RH - No doubt, your
film credits will help you become an even more prolific writer than
you were before. Besides diversifying your paychecks, what other,
not so evident, benefits are you uncovering as a developing “film
guy”?
JK - Well, I’m
discovering a lot of people are really angry at me. [LAUGHS] (It’s)
kind of interesting and par for the course. I didn’t get into this
particular area of writing to play it safe and clearly, the fact that
films are bringing my stuff to a wider audience – they’re not
looking at it as safe for them either. I like the fact that I seem
to be generating a lot of controversy. If that weren’t the case, I
don’t think I’d be doing my job in the first place by writing
this stuff. So, yeah, I think there’s that. I’ve been getting
e-mails from as far away as Denmark and Hungary. Hungary is
publishing The Girl Next Door (and) I never thought that would
happen. That’s because it’s getting noticed in a wider field.
RH - Does the film
stuff help take any stress off you as far as toiling over the
decision to make that next novel out-sell its predecessors?
JK - I think
that’s true. I feel like there’s a time to be sitting down at
the computer and writing stuff; there’s a time to be striking this
particular fire and this particular fire is getting my name out there
and it’s getting people to know me in a more worldwide way. So I
feel perfectly okay with taking a year off and promoting these
projects that other people have made of my stuff. I have managed to
get off a few things – I’ve got a new book coming out from
Bloodletting Press which is a small book of memoirs. I never thought
way back when that I’d ever have a contract for a book of memoir.
It’s lovely and I can segue’ these smaller pieces into the larger
business of actually promoting this stuff this particular year. But
I’d like to try, in the middle of 2008, to get a little bit out of
the movie fray and more back into the actual writing, because that’s
what I’m here to do.
RH - I think a lot of
people would agree that having even just one great mentor in your
corner goes a long ways when you’re first struggling to learn how
to do it so well. Who were your most trusted mentors as a writer,
and have they been altered much now that you’re also into the movie
end of things?
JK - Well, you
know my first mentor was Robert Bloch. Without him I wouldn’t be
doing this. And before him there was my English teacher Dorothy
Senner, who sent me to Bloch, basically threw us that assignment,
saying write to your favourate writer and see if he writes back. And
of course, Bob did. Then there’s been Stephen King. Stephen has
been amazing. Pretty much every time he gets a chance he’s
throwing a word in for me somewhere. I don’t think I would have
been noticed nearly as quickly without Stephen because Stephen has
this amazing huge bully
pulpit that
even Bob didn’t have because Bob was basically only known by the
fans in the genre. If you say Robert Bloch to people who don’t
know horror, you have to say, okay, he wrote Psycho, but if you say
Stephen King, everybody goes, ‘oh yeah, I know that name.’
So Stephen
has been amazing over the course of time and I think he’s been
instrumental in getting me into a lot of foreign countries and just
sort of getting me noticed in general. Did that answer that?
RH - Yes, pretty
much. So in other words, now that you’re more into the movie end
of things your mentors haven’t really changed all that much because
you’re still the writer?
JK - I wouldn’t
call any of these movie guys mentors. What I’ve been lucky enough
(with) is to have film people who really care about the material, who
I suppose in a way are mentors for the projects,
because you’ve got Chris Sivertson (Director of THE LOST) sending
me three versions of the first film script and I’ve had input on
all three films, and I suppose many people don’t have that. So, in
a way they’re mentors because they’re sheparding the films into
the right direction and the kind of films I can be proud of. I think
that’s been true of all three of them. I haven’t seen the
finished product of RED yet, only the rough cut, but I have really
good feelings about that as well because they also seem to be in my
corner, if you will, in terms of trying to get the material down
responsibly and well.
RH - I understand
that RED, an adaptation I personally can’t wait to see, is in post
production as listed on the IMDB website. What other book to film
adaptations are you able to divulge details to us about?
JK - Lucky McKee
has the option to my screenplay for The Passenger and hopefully he’ll
do that because I’d love to see him finish that project. I think
he’d be great for it and we’ve already talked about structure and
design and I’m behind that. My friend, Allen DiFiore has an option
on Joyride and I’ve seen his first draft on the script and that’s
quite good. Again, it’s faithful to the book. I’ve known Allen
since British Columbia; we were hippies on Lasquiti
Island together. At that time he wasn’t even writing
much except for a short story here and there. He’d become a very
major television writer in Canada and he did a really neat script for
this. He was shopping around with some interest until the
damn writer’s strike hit so I don’t know what’s going to come
of that.
Also, Phil
Nutman, who co-wrote THE GIRL NEXT DOOR, has an option on The
Crossings. When the strike hit, he was about half way through a
script for that so we’ll see where that goes. So there’s stuff
out there.”
RH - Is there
anything from your body of literary work that you’d most enjoy
seeing on the big screen that hasn’t been optioned or made into
film yet?
JK - (Without
hesitating) Sure, Only Child. I’m talking to
some people about that, but it’s never been optioned. I think it
would be a really good film and again it’s a true crime based
thing. It’s pretty responsible. It’s pretty strong (and) it was
based loosely on a case I saw on a segment of American Crime, I
believe it was called, on HBO. The actress Lee Grant directed it.
It was about women in prison and why they got there, and this one
segment was particularly gruesome. She shouldn’t have been in
prison. She was trying to protect her kid. So I wrote that and I
think that would be a neat film. Also, there’s been a couple of
nibbles at Hide and Seek lately. Hide and Seek, I think is a very
cinematic piece. It’s pretty linear and it’s got some really
great parts for actors in it. I think that would work.
RH -Who
could you see in your mind’s eye as being leads for either of those
films?
JK - I don’t
think about things that way. I just don’t. The only time I’ve
ever had any experiences of having an actor in my brain when I was
actually writing a book or writing a script was Clint Eastwood for
Red. I said to myself, ‘What if they shot
Clint Eastwood’s dog?’ That’s the only time that’s ever
happened.
RH - That
is
a lot of fun to think of; Eastwood as the lead guy in Red.
JK - Yeah, what if
they shot Dirty Harry’s dog [laughs].
JK - [laughs]
That’s true too. But Clint had that
gravitas.
He’s got that chiseled wonderful face, and
you can always see him, in all his roles, one way or another just
insisting on justice and that’s what the old man does in Red – he
insists on justice. And by the way, I think Brian Cox nailed that
part. He’s not Clint Eastwood, but he’s brought a whole lot of
dignity and strength to it.
RH - I can’t wait
to check that out.
Now, if I asked
you what your biggest personal achievement was and, on the flip side
of that, your greatest disappointment since selling your first film
option, what would you come back with as far as worst and best?
JK - Wow. You
don’t fuck around do you, Rick? [laughs]
RH - You can feel
free to tell me to go to hell if you don’t want to answer any of
these questions.
JK - No, that’s
okay. [laughs] Oh man, I don’t know if I’ll get in trouble for
this or not. The silliest thing I’ve ever done as a writer is to
sign off on the rights to (omitted by author’s request.)
The best - my
favorite moments have all been between me and me. It’s all been
finishing something, something I’ve felt was really right on
target. I remember finishing Red and knowing that I had nailed it as
best as I could. Cover, I felt like I really got the end of Cover
right. The beginning and the end and hell, all of the middle of The
Girl Next Door -- I felt like I was almost taking dictation on that
one. And Red was a little like that too. Those are really magical
moments. They happen in short stories, they happen in books.
Sometimes you’re just writing something and it’s fun and you're
certainly having a good time, but that's all it is. But every now
and again you feel the real magic is that you’ve actually given it
your utterly best shot and you can look back on it when you finish
and say, ‘Yeah. Yeah, I’ll stand behind that one one-hundred
percent.’ That’s the best.
Worst moment?
The cover of The Girl Next Door. The cheer
leader! When I got that one in the mail I just went, ‘aw, fuck!’
RH - Yeah,
as if that didn’t give the wrong impression. And to think there’s
people who thought the DVD to be not to their standards.
JK - Actually, I
like the DVD Cover. I think it’s nice.
RH - Well,
I was a little worried when I saw the original promo cover for it
that said on the bottom, “based on a true story”. I see here
they changed the one on the DVD to say “inspired by.”
JK - I went to the
wall on that one. You cannot quote this “based on.” You’ve got
to get it “inspired by.” …It’s not “based on.” It’s
based on a novel which is inspired by so you can’t put “based on”
on your DVD cover.
RH - In regards to
actually writing the thing in the first place, everyone knows that
great horror writing is not only the cheapest form of mental therapy,
but it can also be the most efficient way to safely exorcise one’s
inner demons.. Being known as the guy who doesn’t write happy
stories by any stretch of the imagination, when the work is done and
the demons are subdued for another day, what’s left to scare you
more than anything else as you walk down your city street as just a
regular guy who happens to write dark tales for a living?
JK - I’m not
scared by much, basically. I mean, I live in a fairly safe area in
Manhattan so nothing on a daily basis tends to scare me much.
Disturbed, sure. I’ve been disturbed every time I turn on the news
or look at the AOL boards and I see this or that person doing this or
that to somebody else -- or some kid getting tortured in the
basement. That happens on a pretty damn daily basis. But that
story’s out of me now. It’s now in the general public’s
purview. They can take
from it what they want or not, but it’s still going on and on and
on. I’ve pretty much said what I’ve had to say in the matter.
Still, it’s going to be there. It’s just a fact of life. People
will be doing awful things to kids for the rest of my life and way
beyond. If I've made a teeny dent in
that or made someone at least talk about it, it seems like a good
thing to do. I dunno.
RH - Absolutely.
And it seems like you guys are achieving that especially according
to one of Phil Nutman’s blog, on MySpace I think it was. It was
about how people had come up to you both after one of the festivals
and had made a rather candid confession and thanked you guys for
making a huge difference.
JK - Phil told me
that. I thought it was pretty neat. Every now and then I’ll get
confessions like that. Sometimes it’s on a much smaller scale.
I’ve had a couple guys who’ve said to me, ‘look, I didn’t
read until I read Off Season. I really didn’t.
Somebody said you gotta read this book and I didn’t read anything
unless it was something I had to read for high school. I read Off
Season and now I’m a reader.’ That - you can’t get
better than that for a writer. That’s what a writer wants to do,
is to turn you on to more and more books, his own plus everybody
else’s. We’re all in this because we started to love reading in
the first place. It’s not a lost art, but it’s an art that needs
protecting.
RH - You
hear confessions like that and it must water down negative from the
people you end up pissing off along the way, huh?
JK - I don’t
give a shit if I piss people off. I don’t care. I hope that if
I’ve pissed them off, I pissed them off for the right reasons, and
that they’re the right people to be pissed off. I don't want to
hurt anybody who’s been mistreated as a child by having them read
my book or seeing the film based on my book. I don’t want them to
feel that kind of pain, but they can, after all, choose not to buy
the book, or choose to close it, or choose not to watch the movie.
And I can understand that completely. And if I can get one or two
people here and there along the way who are actually helped by it,
that’s amazing. That’s just – that’s the mitzvah. (Which,
as I learned, is the Jewish translation for blessing.)
RH - Here’s a
question for you: If I was just walking down the streets of New York
and we shared a drink or what-have-you and ended up going back to
your place, getting a tour of your place, what do you think we’d be
most surprised to come across or to see along the way?
JK - In my
apartment?
JK - You’d
probably be surprised to see a lot of early American furniture. A
lot of stuff that really doesn’t look very scary at all. It’s
kind of sweet. I’ve got an old pie chest, an old cupboard. Paula
and I both tend to like early American stuff. So interspersed
between the horror awards and the ugly stuff are the strange sort of
really twisted Santa Claus I’ve got hanging on my wall and the
two-handed saw. You’d fund ducks, wooden ducks. You’d find
Japanese prints. You’d find a checker board sitting on the wall.
You’d find, let’s see… you’d find lots of bloody books, but
that's not surprising. You’d find a doll house. Paula’s been
working on this enormous doll house for all of her natural life
practically ever since I’ve met her, which is a replica of the
Eldritch House in Providence, Rhode Island, the Eldritch
Mansion, and she’s been doing that for a long, long
time. What else would you find that’d be surprising? You’d find
that the space is basically organized around four cats. What else?
You’d find lots of cooking stuff ‘cus I cook. You’d find a
whole kitchen full of cooking stuff.
RH - What’s
the meal that you always go back to cooking for yourself the most
often, do you find?
JK - My soul food
is lentil soup; German style lentil soup. Whenever I feel depressed,
I make lentil soup. It goes back to my great-great grandmother’s
soup in Germany.
RH - Kind
of a quick time-warp travel, eh?
JK - [laughs]
That’s good!
RH - Well,
thanks so much for basically playing the twelve or thirteen
terrible questions for Jack Ketchum, which I think ended up being a
few more on top of that.
JK - Get
everything you wanted, Richard?
RH - Absolutely.
I find with our interviews I usually end up getting a bit more than
what I had bargained for, so I thank you for that. Anything extra
you can think of that needs plugging as far as what we fans can
expect of you craft-wise?
JK - We talked
about the memoir book, which is good. There’s also - good god,
someday before I die, Broken On The Wheel of
Sex is going to come out [laughs] which we’ve probably
been promoting since 2005. Joy Ride is coming
out soon from Cemetery Dance. I have a deal with Gauntlet Press to
do the last major book which isn’t in print yet, Only
Child, (now available from Gauntlet Press in three limited
editions) and that’s coming out soon. So, by the end of this year,
pretty much all my major stuff is going to be back in print
somewhere, which is pretty cool.
RH - Like
we’ve talked about before, sounds like the prolific status your
movie stuff has put you up to, is definitely helping out the books.
JK - Oh,
absolutely. When you consider that, about fifteen years ago, I was
lucky to get a book on the shelf for six months.
RH - I
thought it was pretty awesome when, I think I was in Germany, where
they did the re-issue of The
Girl Next Door?
JK - Germany has
The Girl Next Door and Off Season
is out there too.
RH - I
don’t think I’ve seen the Off
Season cover yet.
JK - It’s very
close to the original cover that never got used. It’s a hand, a
sort of severed arm. It looks very much like the cover that
Ballantine refused to use because their distributors thought it too
scary.
RH - Very
cool. Again, thanks for everything. I appreciate it.
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